Shooting in rough conditions

I think it is time for this discussion and hopefully more shooters will provide their experience. When conditions are rough as a new shooter it is a huge effort just to pull the trigger because your nerves are saying i hope you hit the target let alone a ten.

After shooting many many different shooting sports there is one thing that is constant you have to have a plan so here are three broad plans to think about.

Plan ONE: Wait till the flags are showing similar patterns then one on the splash plate then 5 shots off as quick are you accurately can. Dangerous ( if the wind changes during this fast string you may get a miss)

Plan TWO: Fire one shot on the splash plate hold off this amount to the ten ring then two on the target for score, another shot on the splash plate two more up on the score target, then one shot on the splash and one on the target.
Very good strategy if you have confidence in your hold off.

Plan THREE: Fire one shot on the splash plate on a flag condition then wait if the condition comes back fire another on the splash plate if it is with the first one commence your string of fire on that flag definition have one sighter left for a complete change in direction if needed. Good strategy if you are confident of recognising flag conditions.

You may employ one strategy per detail or a mixture but what you need to do it stick to your plan. chasing bad shots will get you into BIG trouble.

Another key element is knowing your weather patterns as conditions follow a specific pattern of time so, if you have a timer with you watch the condition and see how long it holds for then time it. If that flag condition holds for 70 seconds you know that if you can you can get 5 scoring shots off in this time for the same bullet impact if you can't then you may have to settle fo plan TWO.

for your comment::

Les,

Interesting topic. One thing I have learnt through chatting with various Fly Shooters is how important the splash plate is. Now in saying that, my experience is the splash plate will only be valuable for wind not elevation.

Expanding in that I mean during my early fly shoots I would shoot on the splash plate, hold my point of aim and adjust both wind and elevation. Then to my surprise I would go to the target and be 2-3 inches over or below my point of aim. At Batemans bay I learnt to find the centre during my warmer and left the elevation the same, as I did at Canberra.

Back to my original comment, strategy for sighters for me is everything. Previously I would shoot my first sighter and follow up with a second to confirm. Problem was I only had one left and still 5 record shots. At Canverra I put one on the sighter and if it landed near where I expected I went straight to the target and held off and put 2 on, then back to the plate and another 2 on the target, plate again and last record shot.

The Fly is a difficult beast in that seeing your holes is all you have to plan your next shot, if you can't see it you have to trust your gut. If I could give new shooters one piece of advice it would be experiment. Try different strategies as Les suggested but above all be confident and accept sometimes you get it wrong, but recognise what went wrong and try another.

When the wind is up and things are tough realise that the guys who limit the damage, that being instead of 10s 7,8,9 shots will still net you a reasonable score and be consistent in your 5 targets.

A prime example that every target counts is Mick Easton at Canberra, had a tough first target but shot consistent for the next 4. Also Mick was in detail 2 which was very tough but he limited damage and finished 3rd in LG, a huge effort given his detail got smacked bad.

There is no substitute to practice, and match practice more so. Ask questions, watch the top guys and what they do, watch the wind and pray for some luck.

Just my 2cents worth.

Cheers

Deane i think you hit the nail on the head and Micks comback was a tremendous effort given the day at hand.

For the new and unsuspecting fly shooter the size of the ten ring is very small and often puts shooters off and i constantly here on the line its a ten when you look across at it and you see it clearly in the 7 ring you have to wonder why they have stated its in the ten. It may be the scope they use or a guess that the ten ring has grown somewhat but when you look at this sport the it is probably arguably the hardest of all the shooting disciplines in relation to bench rest there is. I am very glad to see F- Class shooters coming across and having a go.

I know from speaking to some of them that the fly represents honing their skill sets for F Class and i think this is a brilliant way of looking at it. I feel very lukcy to be able to shoot a lot of other shooting disciplines and really enjoy the transferance of skillsets to each of them.

I think to be able to share knowledge and help each other out is probably the most rewarding of them all. I know the training weekend Anthony Pete and I ran at the Bay helped lots of shooters out but didn't really hit the mark with a big attendance and have lots of knowledge being shared.

Hence that is what this thread was about. So many people got their hats handed to them in Canberra that i felt it was for their interest to put up some plans they may like to try. Some might think it is al luck and who's got the best gear wins i don't believe this for a second as i have previously said nearly all of my rifles are second hand and i have worked on getting them up to scratch.

There must be other tactics that shooters use in rough conditions so come on spill the beans and help each other out because if we don't start using the forum to help each other it will become just another internet forum talk feast.

would like to say thanks guys for your input
it helped me out big time the other week
we had our club championship the other week and the wind and mirage was in from the start and only got worse as the day went on
 7.30am the 1st round I could still my holes but conditions were changing and only shot a 42 (highest for the round was a 52)
well my 2nd round I total stuffed it, wind was moving about but the mirage killed me and only scored a 23 (highest was a 47)
after that I remembered what Les said about 1 shot on splash plate then 2 shots on paper then back to splash etc, backed my scope off to 30 power and from there I picked myself back up and shot a 37 which was the highest as everyone else struggled in the conditions
4th round using the same and trying to shoot on the same wind conditions I scored a 45 (highest was a 47)
and 5th round I scored a 46 (highest was a 47)
at the end of the day I had made a comeback and finished 4th overall with a score of 193.1 (which was my 1st below my target score of 200 in 7 shoots)
in the end I was only 11.9 points behind the winner Jason with 205.

this again helped me on the weekend at my other club , they only do 3 rounds at 400m for fly as they don't a 500m range, but mirage and wind was in, so I used the technique again from 2nd round onwards and won the day with a score of 139.1 for my 3 rounds just beating Jason with 138.2

thanks for your help again guys and keep up the work

but I must ask
sometimes you hit the bull on your splash plate then you go straight up to the fly and your rounds hit higher or lower , you go back to splash plate and you can put your other 2 rounds down and they hit the bull but everytime you shoot at fly your rounds hit higher or lower by a few inches???
is it just the wind or something else ?? it might do it all day and other times it doesn't to do it
 

The higher and lower of a shot on the scoring ring if conditions are the same is related to the angle of the trajectory when you change from the splash plate to the scoring target this is approximately 2-3 feet depending on the range.

Bullet elevation is also directly related to conditions if the wind it coming from the right the bullet will rise high and left  if the condition gets stronger.

If the condition is coming from the left and gets stronger the bullet will be low and right  and rise back up when the condition reduces in strength.

A strategy i use is to get your elevation adjustment from the warmer target and leave it alone so you have an x Axis to work off with conditions varying. I know for instance at Canberra zero on the splash is 1" low on the scoring target in consistent wind.

As a rule i have a 6 O'clock hold on the 10 ring that was i can most of the time see the bullet holes straight away and adjust if necessary even when shooting a string.

Often i will track the wind increase with the thickness of the cross hair from shot to shoot if i see the increase in wind or mirage.

Anyway good result on the weekend and keep up the good shooting.

cheers Les

I agree Les's strategy of one shot on the splash plate and two on target is excellent and has definitely worked for me in the past and I think most, if not all  the competitors at the club championship were using that strategy. The conditions were switchy and mirage heavy most of the time, I believe the thing that helped me get the win was having a line of flags in front of me while using the one shot on plate and two on target strategy as well, I seen the right to left, left to right wind changes that most others didn't because they weren't using flags. Using both strategy's together I believe  has helped give me better results than just using one or the other.

Cheers

Jason

Congrats Guys on you performances. It's great to hear what happening over west and even better to hear you guys are improving with every shoot. That's what it is all about, constant evolvement is a must as everyone is doing the same, so every shoot you have to work harder to get to the pointy end.

Les has been  a huge factor in my improvement this year, and I am greatful for his 'open book' policy with his wealth of knowledge. As I said previously strategy with your sighters is everything. Also you need a range zero, I worked out my zero at Canberra the week before the procal shoot and stayed on that all day, I was in the middle more than I wasn't.

Also I feel confidence is everything. In the past I would be nervous going into each target not knowing what to expect. At Canberra I knew I had an awesome load worked up, put in a HUGE amount of time in prepping cases and meticulously loading each case and I was calm as on the day. Honestly I have never been so relaxed and it payed off. I worked out after the shoot I had no doubts, I knew my gear was A1 and I was focused and the rest is history.

We all need different things mentally to be relaxed and confident, my advice is find what yours is and follow it, you will be in tune with your gear and focused on reading the conditions and executing your strategy rather than thinking about other shit that doesn't matter

Good luck and great shooting

Cheers Deane, yes we are definitely moving forward over here scores have been improving for most of us Fly Shooters every year.

Cheers

Jason

Shooting in Mirage how to adjust your scope.

Firstly get y0ur sight picture as clear as possible on the target then back focus the objective lens so it is ever so slightly blurred and you will see the Mirage.

If you go to far you will see only the mirage and will not be able to see your shots or an aiming point.

This will get you guys on the right track. I am thinking of a holiday in WA as some stage might try and combine it with some fly shooting :)

Be good to have you compete here in the West, I'm sure I wont be the only one whos interested to see how one of the countries best Fly Shooters goes about his business at the bench?

Cheers

Jason

thanks for the tip Les and would be great to shoot against you and pick your brain sometime
cheers
Pethy

I will add my 2 cents much worth for Rimfire shooting seeing thats pretty much what the family does.

Rimfires invariable throw the first shot , most often this seems to be high from a cold barrel. Its noticable at 50m but ends up significant at 200 yards. My advise has always been to ignore the first shot or pay little attention to it and use it as a barrel warmer, fouler or settling shot and to get it away as early as possible in the detail. You then can settle down with knowledge that your next shot is your real indicator and watch for your desired condition before firing the shot. If good then go to target before the condi tion changes or fire another sighter if needed - often the first detail this extra shot is a good idea to get your confidence up.
Of course its different at every range so you have to work out what is best on when to get your shots away. Here is a tip regarding the Silerdale range where I have shot for 30 years with more then 20 years shooting the Fly shoot every month.
The range is located well down in a valley and you shoot into an old sandstone quarry so only the larger wind gusts get down in there. The wind predominately comes from right to left most days and travels up from the valley on the right hand side therefore the right hand side benches are the most open and the preferred benches are up against the tree line on the left. In a registered match where you move benches then if you can stay with the leaders when out on a right hand bench then your turn will come to shoot up the left which can be like shooting up a wind tunnel!
Here is the big secret - the wind has a definate rythem to it, what I mean is only the large gusts get down in there so you just be patient and the wind drops right off to almost nothing, I have rarely seen the wind last longer then 2 mins before dropping off again - Get your shots away before the next gusts hits!
The above applies except when the good old sourhterly buster comes thru or those pesky afternoon thunderstorms roll in and then it can be a hell of a place to be with a rimfire.
 Mirage in the hotter months can be a real problem as temps can approach 40deg, but the range now has grass and better drainage which is way better then the rocks of 20 years ago. Les posted above on how best to shoot mirage and using that method then you can actually use it to your advantage.

Regards

Dave Dundas
WSRC Club Captain