Weighing Light Guns

An interesting sideline to the Pro Cal Shoot was watching people weigh their rifles and suddenly discover they should be shooting Heavy Gun, some very suprised looks on a few faces.
It raises an interesting question though ...
If you enter Light Gun and starting shooting the match only to discover that your rifle is over the weight limit what is the correct application of the rules?????
My opinion for what its worth is that the shooter is responsible for his equipment and for making a correct entry. If you enter LG you can change you nomination to Heavy Gun right up until the first shot is fired. After that if your rifle exceeds weight then you are disqualified.
All ranges are required to have a set of scales on hand to weigh LG's with and these should be available for at least 1 hour before the match commences.
The practice has been to weigh only the winners ... this should change based on the number of rifles that went over the 17lb limit and become a weigh all LG's, if your rifle is over weight then you disqualify and have no right to any prizes, Fly patches, small groups etc. as you are outside the rules
What does everyone think of a mandatory weigh in?????

G'day Dave,
Personally I think if a weigh in was not part of the sign in then any later discovery of a gun going over the LG limit, the shooter should be given the option to move to HG for that shoot.

I think a weigh in should be part of the sign in proceedures. I know Peter VM did this last year at his November shoot.

Cheers
Chappo555

PS I was pleasantly supprised to find my gun was 200 grams UNDER what I thought it was and a full 300 grams under the LG limit.

Dave

I think all light guns should be weighed before the shoots start or at least after the first detail.

If you don't have a HG entry then you can just move up into HG if you are over or if you are already entered in both classes a fix or withdraw, of course the fix would only be possible if you weigh in before starting.

I personally like to run my rifles right up to the limit weight wise and therefore know that there are differences in scales around the country so for all those who want to argue with the scales make sure you leave on all scope covers caps etc when setting up your rifle at home so if you go over just pull some of the before mentioned off, and there will be no need for drastic action like the battery drill up the arse.

I believe that most of the ranges we shoot at have scales so it should not be a problem to put this into practice.

Jugs

I thought  it was a bit of a honesty system . i ve been to few F class shoots  were the trigger and rifle weights are taken before anybody starts shooting  its amazing how many have to modify to make weight.  so maybe it should be compulsary but this is adding more rules to suposed 10 we have.

Ratshot

I am sure that most times it is an honest mistake as most of us do our best to get the weight right at home.

The unfortuante side is that most peoples scales at home could be out by 5% doesn't sound like much but that equates to 385 grams and I believe that this is where the mistake comes from.

This is why I say leave everything on when setting up at home so you have a margin of error at the match.

Jugs

I agree with the need to weigh.... that is why we had scales out and a list of names for people to weigh their rifle and have the RO sign to verify the weight for all light guns at our match in Batemans Bay.

We will do that at all registered matches .

I think the rules leave no room for later changes of entry class.... once the first shot is fired, if the rifle fails the class, it is disqualified. Rule 3.1.1.3 states that the light gun limit is 17lb (7.711kg). There is no mention of an ability to move up during the shoot.... only a hard weight limit for LG class.

It does not specify mandatory weigh in..... but clearly the weight limit is there for the organisers of events to enforce if they so choose.

As the placings can effect SOTY I think all LG's should be weighed... not just the winners.

Cheers

Anthony

I agree that most mistakes are genuine.....  It could also be as simple as adding a shield on the front of a scope, or a heat shield on a barrel.... that is why weighing in at the start would be very prudent...

It does not add to the 10 rules.... weight is already covered in the existing 10 rules.  We are merly talking about the points to clarify them.

Adding equipment during a shoot is also a risk..... be careful if you add another scope shield or some other gear to your rifle during the shoot....

Well some interesting views ...

I think we should have a serious look at weigh-in prior to shooting or its shooter responsibility for later errors.
I dont agree that someone should be allowed to move up to HG after the match begins (by that I mean detail 1 fires its first shot) my reasoning is that a shooter with both classes has to make certain he is on the money or he is disqualified in LG while a LG only shooter can toss a coin ... everyone should be in the same boat, equal playing field and all that ... each range has scales weigh your rifle before the match and you can change your nomination to HG or fix the issue.
As has been stated honest errors happen and I am not suggesting otherwise however by the same token points in SOTY go to a lot of LG's that may not be weighed because they didnt finish top 3 but could have a bearing on the SOTY result .. not very fair to those doing the right thing. Also a Fly patch or small group is something to be prized and having those awarded to someone shooting a rifle which is out of class is also not right someone that did the right thing has missed out on smallest group for example.
1 hour of time prior to a match having the scales out is not a big ask but I think its needed after watching the rifles being weighed at Canberra.

i think this is a great topic , i for one think that all LG entries should be weighed in prior to the first shot being fired and this could be consistant across all the events.

At the end of the day uniformity is what makes sports what they are, if people have a perception of an advantage then others feed off that and make something out of nothing.

If the rules are clear and everyone does the same thing across every event then everyone knows what has to be done and there is no surprises.

Infact i would be prepared to do all the weigh ins to help organisers with the shoot. As i travel to nearly all events and try and get there at least the day before.

Uniformity is the key to longevity if everything from the bench draws to the scoring method and every aspect of the shooting that way everyone is on a level playing field and there is no room for perceptions of anything else but fair play.......

cheers fraz

There is really only one proper course of action and that is to do a full weigh-in prior to the start of the match.
Should a LG go over weight the competitor has the option of switching his/her entry to HG if not also entered in that class already, can alter the rifle so as to reduce the weight or find another rifle to use.
 Once the match has commenced the only course of action that can be taken if a LG is found to be overweight is disqualification, swapping classes at this time is not an option.
So it behoves the competitors to insist that the organisers conduct a formal weigh-in before the match commences.

Pete

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I think everyone is working on the the right track here. Personally "fly" shooting at what ever range is great fun and the more people we can get involved in the sport the better the over all result and attendance. There is great scope for this type of shooting to grow. I like the call that was made about the "200" fly if this is the case then why can't there be records for 200 yards and 200 meters that way no one has to alter ranges, the result will be the same a range a record......

I would advocate that there be a rule book for "Fly Shooting" and a set of guidelines that all clubs adhere to in relation to the way shoots are run.

This is my thought.
1/ Bench Draws to be held at the range at 7.00am on the day of the match - that way everyone is there and bench numbers can be drawn from a ballot and then people can set up.
2/ All light gun entries to be weighed at 7.45am Two people to varify the weighing. Which includes all light guns used in the shoot.
3/ Delegates one from each state to be the dispute committee or in the advent of only two states at the shoot then two from one state and one from another.
4/ Standardised method of calculating scores and groups
5/ Only 8 rounds to be on the bench top clearly visible to the RO
6/ An equipment list be provided by the shooter
7/ Method of management of the media eg this web site and information sent through about the shoot eg spreadsheet of results. photo's etc

I am sure that there are any number of other things that we could put in there and perhaps these jobs as above would encourage people to assist as Pete Vanmuers posted.

What do you think

Hi All      i like many  weigh my light gun at home before i go to a shoot
               if it weighs close to the limit with all the caps and scope covers
               i know that when weighed at the range  without these covers
               it should be O K      if  after i have changed a scope  or mounts
               and any other mods i have done between shoots   i do not take it
              for granted that it will still be under the limit
                      so i get it reweighed on a good set of scales  and check it at home
               just to verify that my home scales are good enough

                 DON'T  FORGET TO INCLUDE THE BOLT WHEN YOU WEIGH  
                     and any sun shields or mirage strips     they do all add up  
               
                   i still think there should be a weigh in before we start to shoot

                                                      john mc quire