Posted by Stuart Elliott on Mar 14, 2017; 2:44pm
URL: http://oldforum.flyshooter.com.au/Proposed-rule-change-for-discussion-tp5709168p5709171.html

Hi,
An interesting and timely discussion here I guess. Good to see people are thinking about this.
I agree with the principles of what is suggested by Anthony. But I also agree that leaving it as an undefined "grey" area or  in any rulebook can or could create havoc.
It's a tough call.

There could be a couple of ways to improve things.
1) First gain consensus of what actually is the limits of "not in the spirit of competition"
2) Define some specific things (which are agreed) "that would be examples of going too far".
3) Add an option for any competitor or spotter, so notified by an RO, to have the option of continuing to shoot under protest (fee would be to be paid) and a properly formed protest committee would later hear the matter after the final cease fire. Both could be disqualified if their protest fails.

The reason for this is it allows the match to continue without delay of conducting an immediate protest meeting.


In my own opinion the adjusting of scope turrets or .... otherwise indicating where the shooter should aim, or loading the cartridges in the gun etc is going too far as the role of a "spotter".
For me the spotter can call the shots (indicate where they land on the target) by talking or showing on a target or similar, Talk with the shooter about wind conditions changing or not. Or say "the area (or flags) out the back hasn't settled yet" etc, etc Things like that.
But, Not touch the gun or ammunition specifically or use anything to indicate where the person doing the shooting should aim. By that I mean one way is clicking the turrets, another is maybe using a pen to point on a spotters target where the shooter should aim. Or use a simple crosshair reticle diagram on a clear sheet which is being moved over a target by the spotter to indicate the same (even if no words are spoken) is something that I think all would agree is not allowed.

An area that is more grey may be about the spotter telling the shooter when to start shooting and when to shop or to wait etc. Need some discussion about this and if decided that is "not on" then how to police it.

So yes I think now is the time to make some things clear because there are already other events being shot that use a coach. F class teams, Match Rifle events all include a wind coaching. Palma teams actually includes a few team members calling wind on spotting scopes, plotting and all these people are "wired up" on closed radio circuits. They will be Using the wind coach to click the turrets and calls the shooter to fire etc. In their teams match they may call for one shooter to fire and see the result before making corrections for the other team members to fire. In other words they may do this to sacrifice one shooters score to improve the overall team score. This is all well and good for their events. Its just their strategy.
This "Fly match" is a bit different.
So there is a variety of stuff going on out there and  these people could or will come and shoot a Fly match they could easily misunderstand everything if we all don't make the boundary fence clear. That means in a rule book , written word, where they is no arguments or "interpretation". Or no excuse like "we had no idea this is different to Match Rifle coaching" etc.

I have always put it this way to people. "In a Rally car the navigator does the navigating and the talking about the route and the driver does the driving and decides what gear, where to steer and when etc".

I need to double check all the proposed rules about "spotters" again but, just saying, in my opinion they should actually also be competitors. In other words also competing in the event on other relays. I would personally say that a spotter who is not entered and also shooting is not in the spirit of competition. Because if any spotter is not also a competitor then ANY potential discipline action is meaningless and no enforcement against their own scores could be applied.  

Just my thoughts,
Stuart Elliott