What's hot and whats not....... the big guns

For those who shoot balls to the wall big calibers and flat out i think this a topic that other shooters may be interested in. With the current method of shooting the HG class being a cruiser weight dasher or the like i think we may be loosing some of the experiemental aspect of the sport in pursuit of the wood.

The true heavies are reducing in numbers each shoot with a standard couple of guys shooting them and others shooting the cruiser rifles.  This has nothing to do with the rules more to do with what can you get to shoot and what you can't.

I have seen lots of fire breathing rifles that produce a ball of flame out of the muzzle and just don't shoot. The .338 Lapua, Yogie's, 300 Ackley, 300WM, etc etc all get rounds up range with great knots but are they accurate.

The HG Australian record belongs to a 300WSM with a much smaller payload than a 300grn .338 bullet with less ballistics. I think in times to come HG will be a centre fire cruiser weight in a little bit bigger caliber than 6mm perhaps a red hot 7mm may do the trick with 168gn bullets ballistically they are great on paper.

When i started shooting the fly HG class was where alot of development went into guys would  build that monster balls to the wall flat shooting venom punching ear piercing creature no one wanted to be near, but shooters loved them. The wow factor and what the hell is that has some what gone by the way.

I have a new and exciting creature to bring to the LG line a 6mmx284 mighty lite. breathing a 107SMK at 3400 barrel expectancy about 500rds i am thinking or a bit less. Will it shoot don't really know that either probably on the second or third barrel when i get the load right.

Flyshooting over the past 5 years has evolved and great scores are being shot all the time but our flexibility is dropping off on experimental calibers and builds. With most heading to a Dasher, BR, BRX, and looking for the edge for the top line placing.

A clearer demonstration of this is in the short range Centre fire class LV & HV where at least 90% shoot 6ppc with V133 powder -64-68grn projectiles, fed primers, lapua cases.  In times past before their evolution a .222 Rem or 6BR were the hot rods to win the shoots.

It is a very interesting thing to look at i hope this generates some discussion.

Interesting topic Les. I would love a "real" HG. Even thought up a few calibre/case combos I'd like to try. I think the real killer is cost.  To build a ripper HG you need $8K or so plus another $1.5K just for a HG front rest. Add to that about a cup full of powder every time you yank the trigger, along with terrible case and barrel life and it all gets a bit costly.

Just my opinion of course.

Hi Chappo,

The post was to talk about hot rods not price tags, but now that you have mentioned it i guess perhaps this would be a consideration so  for what its worth how about this.

A Heavy gun can be built on the action that you already have or buy an action with a project in mind as an example:

You Currenlty have a Bat action bedded for LG in 6 dasher and now you want a heavy gun.

Put bag rails onto a Stock or (have the ability to retro fit to your current stock so they can come off or go on at will) this will probably cost about $400-$600 depending on Gunsmith. Then have a barrel fitted to the same action in a caliber that you think would be competitive in HG with the same bolt face and there is your heavy for less than $1500.00

At the moment there are constantly great actions landing on used guns or other sites that you could build a heavy very cheaply.

As an example of what you can do.

I brought a rifle for $2000 sold everything off it except the barrel (which was a 6BR) and action. Stock, Trigger, Scope rail, Trigger guard.  Which left it to $800.00 actual out of pocket cost.

Then i had the barrel without firing it chambered for 6x47L,$350 and a stock which i got in exchange for some work from a mate i guess cost would be about $800 then had it bedded painted (by myself)  jewel trigger $300

So i guess without dies cases, and my own work the rifle in actual cost was about out of pocket $2250 without scope and mounts and most of us that shoot seriously these days have a March or Nightforce as a scope anyway.

You can do the same thing with a Heavy Gun and most of the components you have already, you can turn a dasher with a barrel swap into a fire breathing 260AI with bag rails to be very competitive in HG class for $1500.

My original post was to generate some interest in calibers and wish lists not to put price tags on set ups but i guess for us all money is a consideration so i hope this post helps out with options.

I guess like hot rods in the car industry, you can spend $2,000 or $200,000.....

The primary difference between LG & HG builds is the stock.... and to a lesser degree the Barrel diameter / Taper used, this extra weight in turn allows the comfortable use of larger calibres & heavier projectiles.

When building a new rifle, there might be an additional $1000 for a true big stock if you buy it ready made (like a Shehane Maxi Tracker etc) , and an additional $200 in barrel cost, but that is about it..... the gun smithing, dies, trigger, scope etc are all very similar to a custom 17lb rifle.

Then you need an extra wide additional top for the rest you have already, or a dedicated heavy gun rest & rear bag.

The other thought is for those that have something in the safe like a rem 700 in 300 win mag or 30/06 etc that you bought years ago and don't use much at all because it is not fun to shoot at the range..... Make a heavy stock with a barrel block, put large stainless slides on the front and rear, whack on a Jewel Trigger and a scope rail & maybe re barrel it if the budget allows & your good to go....

Or go all out and spend $12k+ on a big shiny impressive unit..... it will look the goods, and why not if you can afford it.......but that does not mean it will score any better than what someone who knows what they are doing does for less than 1/2 the price !!

Cheers

Anthony

Yes I loved seeing the heavy guns in action. When a good deal on a heavy gun stock, front rest and barrel block came along I jumped at it. I bought a Maddco 1.45" barrel, got it chambered in 300WSM and screwed my existing action/trigger/scope onto it. When the heavy gun is not being used, the action/trigger/scope goes back onto my regular F class rifle. In the end I was able to get a full sized heavy gun on a limited budget.  While the 300WSM is not as fire breathing as some, and is only running around 2840 fps, it is fun pulling the trigger on the magnum with the recoil of a 6PPC.
As I have a spare barrel block for it, I have been thinking about getting a 338 Edge barrel made up for it, but not many ranges will allow it. Maybe an impulse buy will get me a heavy 338 barrel sometime?

Hello Rod how is this big heavy performing any load data or results you would like to share with the fly fraternity

Les, the 2nd last time I used my heavy gun was in light conditions at 700yds, trying different seating depths and the barrel had around 100rounds through it.  In this test session the heavy gun was the most accurate gun I had ever used. Other guns at the time seemed to be more effected by the wind than my 300WSM. This was with 61gns of 2209 behind a 210gn Berger VLD jammed from .005" to .020" into the lands. .010" to .015" in was best at around 2820 fps. Its accuracy node seemed to be between 2800-2850 fps so I settled on 2820 fps.
Last time I used it was at Wagga where it  was not so great, the cases on the last few targets were getting very sticky. Cronographing later showed it had jumped way up in velocity which is very common when barrels get to the 100-200 round mark. I did not clean at Wagga Wagga and maybe this barrel needs cleaning regularly, something which will need to be tested more soon. Accuracy in previous test sessions shows this heavy gun 300WSM has a lot of potential, I just need to retest with different powder loads (I have a big pile of a new lot of powder and projectiles just for this barrel).
I am certainly keen to get out and use this heavy gun more. It was fun to be shooting a gun with the wind bucking ballistics and inherent accuracy of a 300WSM, with the recoil of a 6 PPC.
 

Hi Rod,
Mate my experience with the 300wsm was very familiar to yours so i swapped powders to achieve higher velocities with less pressure so i am running 68grns of 2213SC which i think is the perfect powder for the 300WSM i must admit that i took probably 500 rounds to get the WSM running right now it has won many matched shooter of the year, and last weekend at Canberra. Some have told me i am mad sell it but i guess that is where shooting the right combination rig either suits you or not.

My bullets in the WSM are 190 Sierra's batched and moly coated i can and do support the theory that moly coating in a 50 round match is a must to get you through the day without a big barrel clean.

As for Jamming projectiles i don't jamm any bullets preferring to achieve a lower accuracy node that has a big temerature range ballastic harmony for an entire day of shooting. If you are driving them hard on the high node and the temperature increases 5 degree's you may be at risk of blowing primers or even worse case seperation.

just for something to try drop your seating depth back to 3"off the lands moly your projectiles and give the 2213 SC a run i think you will be very happy with the result.

cheers Les

Les, I am keen to use moly in this 300WSM to make sure it goes well through a 50 shot match without cleaning. I just wanted to get 150-200 rounds through the barrel to get it through the weird stage before switching to moly.                              I had tried .015,  and .005" jump early on but this barrel loved .010" - .015" jam. I will stick with 210VLDs for now as I have so many of them and they shot well before the barrel sped up. The pressure was fine when I shot it at 2820-2830 fps and I think pressure will drop slightly when I witch to moly. I will try this combination a bit more first before try 2213sc. Like you say, I will likely be able to get up to the higher node with 2213sc which might be handy at some ranges.